- This topic has 24 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated by Ccteam.
September 17, 2020 at 10:25 pm #123143
Mexman (Vienna-Greg) your response disappointed!
Racist, Are you serious? Maybe a Bow tie Mormon doesn’t like Christians? Stay safe.September 17, 2020 at 11:18 pm #123144
If one claims to not see the racial tone surrounding this topic then I can’t help with any length of explanation.
Sorry to disappoint you eer85. I see it how I see it.
Unfortunate situation on all sides. Lyons had no other choice in my opinion.
Do not see Koenning as a bad guy. Don’t see Martin in a bad light either. Things happened that should not have on both sides. Once escalated the outcome was predictable.September 18, 2020 at 7:48 am #123149
It was The predictable outcome! A shame, sign of the time.
Regardless of differing opines right or wrong, Good to see old time posters posting again here.September 18, 2020 at 9:07 am #123155
20 or 30 years ago, Vic and Kerry would’ve met in a room, perhaps with Neal or Shane as facilitators, and worked this all out. If any other team members had a stake in the issue with Vic, they too would have been part of the above process. In 2020, this process seems to have been taken off the table, which I think is very regrettable.
Oh I get it – folks will say that old process would be intimidating to Kerry with Vic, Neal, and Shane being authority figures and that he would fear retaliation from the staff. Give me a break! What part of him coming back to the team and Vic moving on, would keep some hypothetical “loyalist” to Vic on the staff from extracting the pound of flesh from Kerry anyway?
Dealing with, negotiating with, and learning to thrive under authority figures was the “normal” for most all of us posting on this board while growing up.
Nothing in what I wrote condones or otherwise endorses racism – racism has no place in this world and that has been my attitude for my entire life. And I state categorically that if in any way Vic was found after the now sealed investigation to have acted in a racist manner, then he had to go.
Religion and politics, which seemed to be the main issue that was publicly stated, while ill advised in a “professional” setting, is not a termination offense in my mind. Some sort of progressive discipline approach would have been a far better remedy. Said another way, if I were one of the coaches, I would not be bringing up religion or politics with my players. But if I did, would I deserve to be counseled first or to be immediately fired?
Lastly, if religion or politics offends someone, then who REALLY owns the issue? Being offended involves feelings. Who owns feelings? Aren’t they by definition a personal thing? As an example of the ownership thing – how many of us parents here on this board when one of our kids got their ass in a bind, the kid immediately attempted to justify their action by the old “so and so MADE me do it” excuse? We love our kids, but we didn’t accept that horseshit argument. No one “makes” you do anything. You choose to do it. It’s the same thing with feelings. You choose to be offended or not to be offended. And this goes doubly for cases where the action or words that offended you were NOT INTENDED to offend you, which by inference it seems even Kerry acknowledged to be the case with Vic.
But this is 2020 and here we are with Vic on a job search with a black mark on his resume and everyone else even more intimidated about having any sort of open, spontaneous dialogue with each other for fear of causing offense. Isn’t this environment even the least bit disconcerting to everyone?
When are we going to STOP pigeonholing folks into identity groups or ideological groups? In today’s environment when we first meet a person, isn’t our subconscious action to try to guess the identity group to which this person belongs? How screwed up is that? We need to get rid of these sub-sets and instead just view folks as human beings, just like ourselves. And just like us, the other folks have their own beliefs and opinions which are as valid to them as ours are to us. Their skin color may be different, their beliefs may be different, but at the end of the day they are just another human being trying to negotiate their way through this life with the same overarching desires for respect, safety, and freedom that we ourselves have.September 18, 2020 at 10:54 am #123163
Biases show when we make assumptions about the investigation in both directions. WV could have been more open about results of the investigation but chose not to. Drawing any conclusions from that other than WV being, in my opinion, unwise for not sharing more, is a futile exercise.
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