So you excuse worse WVU 3-season stretch in more than 40 years?

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  • #162124

    I agree with Southerneer’s statement about Nicco.  I’d like to see what Brown could do with a very talented QB, and Nicco appears to be very talented according to the experts.  But he won’t play as a true freshman, so I think, unless next season is truly awful, NB gets two more years.  The QB situation for next season looks unsettled to me.  I wonder if Crowder has the talent to win the position?  I’d like to think so.

    #162126

    I thought I touched on Cignetti’s health crisis. I know I’ve mentioned it many times. Obviously didn’t help him. And he did well at lower-level Indiana PA.

    #162127

    Coached off and on for 40 years but only at the 12-and-under level because I wanted to teach more than just baseball but how to deal with the inevitable bumps that would face them later in life. My goal was to make sure EVERY player …

    OK, thanks for responding; good to know.  Although, I’m still confused on why you’re asking this question.  IMHO, this would be a question one might ask in year 4 or 5 (if needed).

    HCNB isn’t perfect but he is doing all the necessary things to build the program. Will he have the kind of success most expect?  Who knows, look at programs such Nebraska, Florida State, Arkansas, Va Tech, heck even throw in LSU at this point.  No one likes a .500 (or sub .500) record but to suggest a head coaching change at this juncture is ridiculous.

    #162133

    I think that CFE has an obvious dislike for HCNB. Let’s look at each coaches situation when they took over the program.

    Frank Cignetti inherited a program in dire need of facility upgrades and the roster as well. However, HCFC recruited VERY well and left his successor, HCDN in excellent shape to go along with the new facilities.

    HCDN elevated the program….he did struggle the last 2 years but overaal, left RR in decent shape.

    HCRR suffered his first year, but had some great recruiting, thanks to Rick Tricket & Tony Gibson & Bill StewART AND left Bill Stewart in pretty good shape.

    HCBS continued excellent recruiting and handed Holgorson an excellent roster.

    HCDH lived well off of HCBS roster and had a few nice recruits himself. However he was too lazy to recruit to Morgantown and the recruiting interfered with his party schedule. He left WVU because he new that he would have been fired the next year. He left tis program in complete disarray.

    HCNB, inherited a very weak roster from DH. If you don’t have a QB you are in deep doo-doo & DH new this. HCNB’s situation is very different from his predecessors. In solving a jig-saw puzzle the key is getting the perimeter established….Then the fill ins become easier. HCNB can and will make WVU relevant IF given time. The VT comparison with Beamer rings true. Give him time. Year 4 should show improvement. His recruiting, at least on paper appears to be significantly better than we have seen at WVU. You can’t rush a great surgeon, a master chef, or a great football coach.

    #162156

    HCNB, inherited a very weak roster from DH. If you don’t have a QB you are in deep doo-doo & DH new this. HCNB’s situation is very different from his predecessors.

     

    Nicky gets it.  You have to have the Jimmy’s and Joe’s to put together the X’s and O’s.

    #162206

    1. Dana left the program completely bare. He would have gone 2-10 the next year if he had stayed. HCNB went 5-7 with that mess.

    2. Jeanbean is exactly correct in his entire post.

    3. Someone mentioned RRod and Pat White. We must remember that Rod thought Bednarik was better than White until Bednarik got hurt against Louisville.

    4. Because of the lack of talent left to him and the fact that he wants to build primarily with HS players, HCNB deserves 2 more years after this one. I’m not a recruiting expert but we seem to get more 4 stars now and that will pay off.

    #162207

    Guys I think everyone is going off the rails on CFE’s post. You can’t make numbers read what you want. It’s apples and apples 3 years to 3 years. Look at some the college’s that have canned coaches this year. He is basically the CEO of WVU football. In any other business where you are making 2 to 4 million a year and you are not showing improvement at all of any kind you ain’t going to be around long. It’s not my $$$$ paying him but boosters ain’t gonna keep dropping it big checks if something doesn’t happen. I am 63 and probably been a fan longer than many have lived on Gods earth. I waited from till 1984 for a win over Penn State. I was born in 1957. When you all wait 27 years for a victory over a school that if you dropped a bomb on I would not care let me know. Three teams I totally hate other than than penn state is Notre Dumb, The Suckeyes in Columbus and the Kitty Cats in Steel Town. In my opinion all CFE did was compare First 3 to First 3 an Browns on the losing end. My God people get a grip. We are here for what we think is best for this school and the FB program. Guess what I am willing to bet people hate Biden and people love him. I am not a lover of NB but fire him maybe, maybe not it’s not my decision but I am entitled to an opinion. CFE stated nothing but pure fact for records. Willing to bet we can go back in history and find a coach who was worse and I am willing to bet adjusting for inflation he still wasn’t making what NB is

    #162212

    Doc, you need to re-read CFE’s post and consider the context. If you think that ANY coach before HCNB played a schedule that is even close to what HCNB is facing we just have to disagree. HCNB’s roster that he inherited was not close to B12 calibre ready. It’s like being in a drag race & you have a ’77 Pinto against a top fuel dragster……you’re gonna struggle until you get your vehicle upgraded.

    CFE’s number are accurate but they don’t mean crap in the context of what HCNB has had to contend with. And CFE seems have an obvious bias against HCNB…..Brown must’ve denied CFE’s request for an exclusive interview.

    #162213

    Nicky let’s just agree to disagree. Let me put a different light on it. Our records have gotten worse since NB started. No kind of improvement not even close to staying the same. This team’s chances of a 3 game sweep is slim a best and my guess is about 30% of a bowl game maybe higher if the 6 game waiver works into. Not sure they even have the waiver any longer.

    #162243

    Considering he started with nothing , yes!!

    #162272

    I think that CFE has an obvious dislike for HCNB.

     

    That’s an absolute lie. This is not about personalities. This is about performance. And worst 3-season start in 40 years, no matter how you sugarcoat it or play dodgeball with it, is abysmal. If Rich or Don or Bobby or Jim or Bill did it I would be saying the same thing. I go by actions, not the person doing it. Just because you and others don’t, don’t ascribe your flaw to me.

    #162273

    So it’s the worst 3 year start?
    What’s the significance?
    Ain’t it more important what happened after that in the past?
    Call Paul Harvey to get the “Rest of the story”!
    Oh, he’s dead?
    I guess it’s up to you, CFE!
    What happened in each of your examples after the 3 years?
    Will Neal Brown get to add to the story?

    #162286

    CFE seems have an obvious bias against HCNB

     

    Why does everyone think that every poster thinks the way they do. I just by actions, not people. If Nehlen, Rodriguez, Bowden had the numbers that Neal Brown does I would react the same way. And If Neal Brown 10 years from now has better numbers than Don, Rich and Bobby I will react favorably, too. I go by actions, not names. Stop making excuses. Big East when Miami was national power and Virginia Tech had Michael Vick and Syracuse had Jim Brown and Boston College had Doug Flutie was pretty damn tough, too. Stop cherrypicking! My numbers are accurate. You can twist and turn and dodgeball all you want but the numbers are dead on! Even when you don’t like them. I sure don’t.

    #162316

    Looking at it another way:

    Neal Brown was 5-7 in his first season at WVU.

    Worse than Holgorsen’s 10-3, Stewart’s 9-4, Nehlen’s 6-6,  Bowden’s 8-3  but better than Rich’s 3-8, Carlen’s 3-5-2 and barely better than Cignetti’s 5-6. That puts Neal 5th, Rich 7th. See, I go by actions, not names. 

    #162326

    Yet, Dana’s first three years in the B-12 is. at the present time, worse (wins % wise) than Brown’s first three years in the B-12. If WVU wins two of the last three, there will be no comparison.

    Add to that Dana won one bowl game during his period at WVU and Brown has won one bowl game during his time at WVU.

    There’s a big difference in level of talent that Bill S. left Dana vs what Dana left Brown, especially QBs, Geno Smith vs ???.

    #162329

    TonyAlto
    So it’s the worst 3 year start?
    What’s the significance?
    Ain’t it more important what happened after that in the past?
    Call Paul Harvey to get the “Rest of the story”!
    Oh, he’s dead?
    I guess it’s up to you, CFE!
    What happened in each of your examples after the 3 years?
    Will Neal Brown get to add to the story?

    NO ANSWER?

    #162348

    WVU scored 3 points against Oklahoma State.

    Missouri State scored 16, Tulsa 23, Boise State 20, Kansas State 20, Baylor 14, Texas 24, Iowa State 24.

    Only Kansas and WVU scored 3.

    Do you defend those comparative numbers that indict the WVU offense?

    Do you want my alma mater to be at the bottom of pile with Kansas in any category?

    I sure as hell don’t.

    #162349

    WVU SCORED 38 vs Iowa St
    Kansas St 20
    Ok. St. 21
    Iowa 27
    Baylor 31
    Texas 7
    UNLV 3
    No. Iowa 10

    What say you about these COMPARITIVE numbers?
    😛

    #162351

    As far as I’m concerned, it’s not CFE’s “research” that annoys me.  His research is just arithmetic.  I learned how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide in grade school.  It’s the accusatory, inflammatory tone of his posts that urinate me off.  “So, you excuse WVU 3-season worse stretch, etc.”  That is offensive, and frankly, I’m getting sick of this man.  We don’t “excuse” anything.  We don’t defend failure, nor do we think that last week’s embarrassing loss is something that can be tolerated if it continues.  But, if you believe that NB actually knows what he’s doing and that he needs more time to build his program, then CFE, with his dazzling ability to add and subtract, concludes that you are a traitor to your beloved alma mater who is excusing the inexcusable.

    I think a reasonable person could conclude that Brown might build a solid program at WVU, just as Don Nehlen did.  I don’t care what second grade arithmetic, considered outside of real world context, says, I don’t think NB is a horrible coach.  I think he knows what he’s doing.  He obviously needs  help on offense.

    Will he succeed? I don’t know; I’m not God.  But I’m also sick of self-styled objective researchers who think numbers “speak for themselves” without considering the actual program that NB inherited.  Dana did not have a long-term commitment to WVU, and his recruiting demonstrated that.  The cupboard might not have been bare, but it was far from full.   And, if there are those of us who think Neal Brown deserves at least one more season to demonstrate what he can do, we are not “excusing” anything.  We’re only being reasonable.   And all of us can do second grade math.

    #162354

    There’s a big difference in level of talent that Bill S. left Dana vs what Dana left Brown, especially QBs, Geno Smith vs ???.

     

    Sounds like a cop-out excuse for failure to me. You either win or you’re a loser. 

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