So you excuse worse WVU 3-season stretch in more than 40 years?

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  • #162358

    If you don’t / can’t take into consideration the state of the program when a HC takes over I don’t know what to tell you.  The starting point for any HC is indicative of what the program is capable of in the first few years.

    If you don’t understand that, we can’t have a conversation.

    #162360

    Doc, IMO, it’s apples to apples when the first three years that Dana coached in the B-12, when he had his own coaching staff and the first three years that Brown coached in the B-12 and had his own coaches. That’s B-12 record vs B-12 record.

    But I don’t think it’s apples to apples when you add the BE record because, although he was the head coach, his players and his coaches were complements of Bill Stewart. At that time, this was a weakened down BE, not nearly as difficult as the B-12.

    #162367

    Dana’s first 3 years.  10-3, 7-6, 4-8.   Took a decent program that had some (lots of) total numbers problems but very good players and a great QB and took it straight down the tube.  Numbers don’t lie.

    #162473

    TonyAlto
    So it’s the worst 3 year start?
    What’s the significance?
    Ain’t it more important what happened after that in the past?
    Call Paul Harvey to get the “Rest of the story”!
    Oh, he’s dead?
    I guess it’s up to you, CFE!
    What happened in each of your examples after the 3 years?
    Will Neal Brown get to add to the story?

    STILL NO ANSWER?!!!!

    #162474

    Provide the same comparison at the end of this season.

    #162475

    “Still no answer?” 

    I’m no Nostradamus. Are you? I only go by what I see. 

    If Neal Brown and WVU win the next 3 games and a bowl game convincingly NO ONE will be happier about it than me. 

    I look up and report what the numbers say and you pile onto me because you want to be an ostrich with its head in the sand.

    How about this number: Bob Huggins has won the same number of games are Bob Knight! They both kept Bob-Bob-Bobbing to success. You want to attack Huggins’ numbers, too? 

    Let’s hope that WVU football shows the ferocity and non-stop energy against Kansas State that the basketball team showed against Pitt and Oakland and that the football team showed against Iowa State! 

    We’ll both be happy if that happens, right? 

    #162491

    Jim Brown played for Syracuse in the ’50s, a few years before the Big East.

    #162547

    We have little chance to win all 3.  But I still have hope to win 2.

    #162655

    CFE, the reason that, IMO, you have a bias against HCNB is that this is not the 1st post critical of Brown. That is my observed opinion…again, my opinion.

    #162662

    CFE, as previously mentioned, provide the same post at the end of this season.  I suspect it will substantiate your ‘our’ view of Brown.

    #162717

    I think we need to give NB a 5 year extension with a $200,000 raise each year. This has been the most awesome year. This year has been the best year ever

    #162830

    oldguy, good post.  I’ve tried to post that numbers matter little.  They can be made to prove whatever you wish.  One just needs to find a starting point and ending point to whatever argument they wish to prove or disprove.

    Too many believe that wins in the Southern Conference against the Washington and Lee, VMI, William and Mary, etc equals games again Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, etc.

    WVU has never earned the money, or had the money for facilities improvement, as they’ve had since entering the B-12.  The B-12 has been very good for WVU.

    But, make no mistake, competition in the B-12 is tougher than any conference or any period in the Mountaineer’s football life.  No school, not even Kansas is an automatic win, just ask Texas.

    WVU entered the B-12 in 2012.  During that period, they have never won the conference, nor played for the championship.

    So, IMO the first order of business is to recruit better athletes.  Dana was unable to do that.  At this point in time, it appears that Brown may be able to do that.

    Until the Mountaineers get better athletes, they will always be on the outside, looking in.

    #162831

    Martin, I agree with you.  Too many are ready to jump off a bridge because the Mountaineers have lost some games, including two that I think they should have won.  But when a coach starts almost from the bottom, there’s two ways to go, sink to the bottom or improve through getting better classes.

    I believe that Brown is doing things the right way, and I think the Mountaineers will continue to improve, and will be rising toward the top of the league.

    Absolutely, the worse thing that could happen is to continue to hammer against the coach and his players.  To win, the Mountaineers needs better players, and to get better players recruiting must improve.

    If this class ends in the top 25, and another top 25 class is signed next year, the talent level would be so much better than it’s been in the past decade or so.

    #162833

    Stir the pot

    #162897

    I may have on the rose colored glasses…but I say give this coach and coaching staff time. We knew when HCNB took over the WVU program the cupboard was almost empty. Has he made poor on field decisions? Yes, but all coaches mismanaged timeouts etc from time to time. Even in the pro’s. Performance on the field doesn’t always reflect what has been taught. Same in a classroom. Players that are in good position to make plays often do not. Miss a tackle, miss a block, drop a pass etc. Correctable yes, but not always in a game.

    My last point is if we let HCNB go and hire someone else, we start again. If you say no big deal ask Texas how the continuous changes in coaches has played out for them. 4 and 5 star players throughout their roster and the loose to Kansas. In football… So I say give this coach and coaching staff and additional 2 to 3 years before we make them walk the plank! Remember we have a pretty young team as well. They grow up! Let’s Go Mountaineers!

    #162908

    It doesn’t take a genius to look at the roster that was left for Brown and who the senior leaders of this team are to see what the problems are.

    Sure, there have been coaching issues and head scratchers. He’s not completely absolved in the struggles. But be honest.

    What QB did Dana leave here? Because in year 3, Dana’s star QB recruit from 3-4 years ago should be lighting it up here right now. And its not like that guy transferred after Dana left.

    Who on the offensive line is the senior leader right now? Who are the offensive line stalwarts? That’s right, they’re all freshmen and sophomores.

    Take a look at the depth on defense. Where are the seniors? Where are the juniors? That’s right, they’re not here. Sure, we lost some guys who would make things a lot less of an issue in the defensive backfield, but its not defense where we’re sucking hind tit.

    But when the injuries hit, and they have, look what we have on defense? We’re on the verge of having to break redshirts on guys. At what cost to we bust redshirts on promising young players this year? So we can go 6-6 and play in the InsertBowlNameYouNeverHeardOf.com bowl?

    FACT: Dana Holgorsen never once recruited a top flight Division I QB, despite having a high flying offense that could put QBs in a pro camp just on numbers alone. That void has come home to roost.

    And the main problem is STILL not the QB. Read that again. The number one problem is not QB. It is offensive line.

    Doege has more than proven to be a manageable QB with time to throw. Sure, his timing even after three years is poor. But if he had a receiving corps of David Saunders, Shawn Foreman and Rasaan Vanterpool, he’d look like a star right now. Stedman Bailey, Tavon Austin and JD Woods and he’d be a first team all conference guy.

    Why? Because those guys didn’t drop passes like they’re hot bricks.

    And if Doege actually experiences a running game, he’s unbeatable. Don’t believe me?

    Since the opener of 2019, WVU is UNDEFEATED when rushing as a team for 100 yards.

    100 YARDS. ONE HUNDRED YARDS. 11-0

    Since 2018 19-3 are the Mountaineers when they rush for a measly 100 yards as a team. And those losses were to Oklahoma State and Oklahoma to end 2018 and then Dana’s last game in the bowl vs Syracuse.

    No doubt this team needs a big time QB. No doubt. But without an offensive line that controls the line of scrimmage and some receivers who catch balls on the reg, this offense is nothing no matter who calls the plays.

    On the other side of things, for you Brown bashers, this coaching staff has turned this program from a paltry defense that viewed success as making the other team punt once or twice a game, to being a force respected nationally. A unit that can keep this team in the game all while the offense is busy flailing.

    And that’s even with a coordinator change in the preseason last year and the loss of transfers this offseason of guys who would have been expected to be stars.

    A program that long went to a 3 down front because coaches kept saying nobody could recruit defensive linemen here now looks at a team whose best unit is the defensive line and the youth in that room only points to a bright future.

    You don’t even think about firing your coach at this juncture. Not at West Virginia.

    Building a program at West Virginia takes a full recruiting cycle. If he was left with a strong roster, sure, it should take 2-3 years. But he wasn’t and no amount of complaining will change that fact.

    Change the coach now, and this program will take five years, from now, to be back in the upper half of the league.

     

    #162912

    Big Deuce  Very good thought out post.  It’s what I’ve been trying to convey for months.  Unfortunately, my posts have mostly fallen on deaf ears.

    #162915

    That’s fair enough. I said it, too. Big 12 games only is apples to apples and a fair comparison. Neal came in 2nd to Dana in that one, too.

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Home Page forums BlueGoldNews WVU Sports So you excuse worse WVU 3-season stretch in more than 40 years?