- This topic has 25 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated by Jack Crab.
October 16, 2021 at 3:29 pm #159499
Stop drilling? Stop using fossil fuels? Stop using oil? Go with the Green Agenda. That is just STUPID. It will never happen in our lifetime. There is no way to get rid of oil and gas. No way.
First of all, we need natural gas for heating. It is the cheapest and most reliable fuel out there.
Second, which most of the Right Wing Socialist Wackadoodles don’t realize is you can’t get rid of oil. Why? Get rid of oil and you don’t produce affordable plastic. Plastic is used in almost everything that we make.
Plant based material is sometimes used in producing plastic. About 1% of plastic is plant based. But even then it isn’t 100% plant based as polymers from oil are still needed.
AOC & Biden’s Green New Deal is a killer for the US Economy.October 19, 2021 at 10:37 am #159685
Plastics are toxic and you like living in some fantasyland of the past.
fracking is toxic and not as profitable as the propaganda touting it promised.
Butleer yer not seeing the big pic son.November 6, 2021 at 1:01 pm #161493
Butler most often I totally agree with you. But, I don’t when you write against climate change. I believe in climate change. I’ve seen the changes since the 1940s.
No one, including as you posted “stupid Joe” believes that one can quickly eliminate fossil fuels. But, to save our planet, changes need to begin, even slowing down the use of fossil fuels.
Auto manufactures have been doing their part. Fuel mileage has been improving for a number of years. There are still some gas guzzlers being built. But, improvement has been great when one considers the mileage that the 1960s autos received.
You wrote about the plastics being manufactured. There were no plastic products produced for the consumer in the 1940s. Over the past decades, plastic products have continued to grow. now plastics are one of the planet’s biggest problems.
Plastics do not dissolve, as do most man made products. A plastic cup manufactured today will still be in the landfill in a hundred years. Plastics are a product, for the health of the planet, plastics needs eliminated from most products that consumers use.December 10, 2021 at 4:21 pm #166486
Eugene, I don’t disagree that there is a change in the climate. How much of a change is attributed to fossil fuels is to be debated. How much is attributed to the deforesting in not only South America but around the world. How much is attributed to the increase in world population. How much is attributed to cow flatulent. How much is attributed to “evolving” countries like China and India not following any emission guidelines. How much is attributed to earth’s natural cycle. Over the last few million years there have been a few natural changes in climate around the world.
All of that can be debated later, but I do agree that man made pollution has an effect. How much is yet to be determined.
As far as plastics are concerned, I agree 100% that they don’t decompose. And I agree that we need to recycle them. Lots of other products are made out of recycled plastics. …… outdoor furniture, decking material, even clothing. You aren’t going to get rid of plastic. Replace it with what? Steel? Tin? Paper? Not gonna happen in my lifetime.
And we should continue to develop transportation that uses less gas or no gas at all. But these need to be economical also. Jacking the price of gas up to make it seem that electric vehicles are affordable isn’t the answer. All you’re doing there is hurting the lower income sectors that can’t afford to buy electric vehicles. Then you have the problem with the time it takes to recharge your battery. Go on a 600 mile trip and have to stop half way for 5 hours to recharge isn’t acceptable to anybody. Paying 20% to 50% more for an electric vehicle isn’t feasible for the lower income. Frittering Gov’t payouts away to large companies to make electric cars that aren’t marketable isn’t a good investment.
Now you haven’t even addressed the problem of electric generation. Putting more electric vehicles into service will put an even higher strain on our power grid. You know, the power grid in CA that forces rolling brown outs in the summer because there isn’t enough electricity to go around. Take a few million gas guzzling cars out of service and replace them with electric and you’ve created another problem that won’t be solved for decades. Yes, decades. How long does it take to put a new electric plant on line? Restore the power grid?
I think we all agree on the basics. But forcing us to pay higher energy cost to make way for the energy efficiency of the future isn’t the right thing to do for most of the population that live day to day and can’t afford those increases.
There are way too many things that this administration just hasn’t put into the equation. They are just going blindly into this because it fits the Far Left agenda.
Stop the madness and put a plan together that works.December 11, 2021 at 1:08 am #166542
The green agenda is the future.
we will end up behind the other booming Nations in green tech advancements.
like failing to have high speed railroads everywhere.
people like Butler want to go back to the 50s, the imagined golden yearsDecember 17, 2021 at 3:16 pm #167357
Jack, go back to your room. The adults are talking.December 18, 2021 at 1:00 am #167405
When you talk you prove yer an idiot and anti AmericanDecember 18, 2021 at 10:23 am #167432
Green energy creates jobs. Butler, we are closer on this than you imagine. Open your eyes to the possibilities. I agree we can’t just stop using fossil fuels. But we have to start weaning ourselves away from them. Can we agree on that?December 18, 2021 at 12:02 pm #167441
Expecting a Trumper to open their eyes , yeah, looks good on paper but the reality is that it ain’t gonna happen.December 18, 2021 at 6:14 pm #167500
CC, We can agree that we can wean away from fossil fuels. What we shouldn’t do …… should never do ….. is cut off the use of fossil fuels without having an alternative that will fill that void without killing the economy. Prime example is shuttering coal fired power plants that have scrubbers to almost eliminate CO2 emission. When they did this in Ohio a few years ago the cost of electricity increased 20%. That increase may not mean a lot to me and you but to lower income families that live day to day, paycheck to paycheck, this is a big hit. Same with oil. We practically cut off fracking, put more restrictions on it and in some states banned it completely. This took us from oil (energy) independence to begging OPEC to pump more so the price per barrel would come down. Cost of gasoline is up $1.00+ vs 18 months ago. This again is a huge hit to the lower income families. Families that have to pay more for essentials. Cost of energy is driving up the cost of food. Another staple that hurts the low income.
In my work over the last 45 years I’ve had to justify the rising cost of food, transportation, storage and manufacturing to all of my customers. It’s not that hard to justify when the cost of energy is the prime driver of increases across the board. This year the frozen warehousing industry is taking over 10% increase mostly driven by energy cost. Transportation is taking well over 10% and has done this year over year. Cost of fuel and restrictions on drivers are the man costs.
When I worked for a few years in the coal industry there was a study showing how little the forced emission regulation changes mandated by the gov’t made on the total environment. These mandated regulations shut down coal fired plants, coal suppliers and many of the supply chain for the industry. Basically killing the industry and jobs in coal producing areas. WV, Eastern KY, Western VA, Southern OH, IN, IL and some Western states have not yet recovered. All because an insignificant change in emissions were mandated. Changes that caused the industry to collapse.
I am all for a green energy agenda. Just do it right and don’t wreck the economy for the lower income families. We can get there, but just don’t force things into the economy that hurt the people that need it most.
Then after all of the green agenda is implemented and the world continues to warm what then? How much is natural? How much is just because the population of earth is increasing?
The biggest problem is that the world doesn’t hold certain countries to the same standard.
Short explanation is that we need to find a way to do this without imposing gov’t regulations and costing more.December 18, 2021 at 6:16 pm #167503
Green energy creates jobs at the cost of others. That’s a straw man argument that you won’t win.December 18, 2021 at 7:40 pm #167537
Decided I don’t care to have this discussion. There is no good-faith discussion on this board.December 18, 2021 at 7:44 pm #167538
nmDecember 19, 2021 at 9:29 am #167583
No good faith in discussion? Why? Because you can’t see what forcing people into a bad situation does to their lives? The economy? Allows China as an “emerging country” to walk all over the world?
Go ahead and follow this president’s agenda. Rush into Green Energy without a plan of what it does to our economy, especially how it hurts the people that are low income. Open borders and tax our social welfare network. Defund the police and get anarchy in the streets. Walk all over the constitution.
Oh how I yearn for the days when Billy Clinton or JFK actually worked with both sides of the isle. Now you have a puppet in the office that hardly knows his own name and Nancy and Chuckie are pulling the strings but the master puppeteers are the Gang.December 19, 2021 at 12:16 pm #167598
Yeah it’s too truthful for a Trumper to grasp.
fossil fuels will remain but the future is in renewable energy.
any fool could see that , except for the exceptional Trumper fools who see nothing.December 19, 2021 at 1:37 pm #167602
Once again, Jack can’t grasp the conversation.December 19, 2021 at 2:07 pm #167603
I think you just proved my point. Thanks for once again presuming my opinion for me.December 20, 2021 at 8:24 am #167635
Your point? Just because I disagree with you wanting to ruin the economy by rushing into this agenda without a plan. No plan to pay for it? And NO, the BBB bill doesn’t pay for it.
Joe Manchin is right.December 20, 2021 at 11:17 am #167648
What are you talking about Butlereer? I haven’t stated an opinion on the topic. That’s my point, there is no good faith discussion because you decide my opinion for me and start arguing as if I’ve said that. You’re disingenuous and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger blow hard.December 22, 2021 at 3:50 pm #167796
WOW Vu, who pissed in your Wheaties? Then state your point and stop being so vague about it when you counteract my comments.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.